Gulan: president Barzani is paying an official visit to the United States. In your view, to what extent is this visit important?
Baram: Well, I can tell one thing: this is of huge importance because I want to remind you that it is not only Obama who is willing to do it but congress is becoming recently very positive about that. So both Obama and the congress are supporting the Kurds. Our Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is very popular with congress but very unpopular with the White House. So Obama has refused to invite Netanyahu to the White House for serious discussions and he has announced it recently. So the fact that he is trying to work hand in glove with congress over the Kurds is of huge importance because as you know Obama and the Congress do not think the same about the nuclear agreement with Iran. So in a strange way, the Kurdish cause is now a very important unifying topic between congress and the White House. I believe they will provide you a long lasting support, but now because the fight against Daesh is progressing very slowly and also there is a lot of criticism against the White House, in fighting Daesh, they are working together with Qasm Sulaimani and maybe people in Washington don’t like him.
Gulan: So, How do you interpret this?
Baram: there are differences between the White House and Congress about Iran’s involvement in fighting Daesh, but about the Kurds, both of them, more or less, look at each in the same way, there is not present agreement yet, but basically they agree to support the Kurds and give them equipment.
I personally met in Israel soon after Daesh conquered Mosel. I think it was the end of June, a very important American official who meets often with the president and provides opinions and analysis to the National Security Council in Washington. We discussed Daesh and I told him you must understand that until Prime Minister Nuri Al-Maliki was completely out of the way, you cannot help but Daesh, you cannot help the Shiite government in Baghdad and I told him what you have to do without wasting time is to help the Kurds because the Kurds are your only friends in the Middle East except for Israel, I suppose, you don’t have real friends in the Middle East, there are many governments and countries that you have been working with for many years, that is very good, but if I ask about people who really help you, these are the Kurds. They really are secular. They are more democratic than Baghdad and for sure more democratic than both Ankara and Damascus. So in that area you have just the Kurds. So you have to help them now very immediately because ISIS is going to attack the Kurds and want Kirkuk for its oil as now Kurds kept Kirkuk safe. So he looked at me and said “I agree a hundred per cent”. And maybe they have reached this conclusion before I spoke to them. So they helped you against ISIS but in my view not enough. So this is a good opportunity and politically means that you are getting more American military support and more American political recognition than ever in Kurdish history. Yet I would like to alarm you that I am not sure at all that Obama will suggest that the Kurds declare independence because even though it was mentioned there and here in the American press and even in Congress, it have never been a discussion or a decision to be discussed, like the weapons which have been discussed now, so the Kurdish complete independence was never seriously discussed in political circle in America until now. As a result of that, I think, this is something that president will not suggest but I think what should Barzani ask for is that the Kurds and Baghdad will reach a better agreement on a number of things, for example, I know that in practice Erbil and Baghdad agreed that Kirkuk and Kurdish oil to be sold through the pipes of Turkey. That is a practical agreement, but Baghdad government has not yet agreed officially to recognize the Kurdish contract with oil companies, so American pressure can help the Kurds to get it written down and signed to be a part of a basic law, so this is huge if you get this and you will get a good step forward. Another thing is that Kirkuk was defended with Kurdish life; that those defended Kirkuk with their blood are the Kurds, so in this way you helped the American tremendously. So in the constitution there is a plebiscite which allows everybody in Kirkuk to decide who will rule the city and because the majority in the city is Kurds so the people in Kirkuk will decide to join the KRG. You can ask the Americans to help Baghdad to do the plebiscite because it will be in your interest. I don’t know if Obama will agree on that but this is a kind of thing that you can definitely ask them to do. If you ask them to officially recognize Kurdish independence, I am not sure whether they will agree or not. The only one who has agreed until now to recognize your independence is Benjamin Netanyahu, Prime Minister of Israel, but Israel did not help you too far as it has not a direct contact with you. Between Israel and Kurdistan, there is Jordan, Syria, and also parts of Iraq: Anbar and Mosel. But we helped you until 1975 only at least there was one country ready to work with that, and that was the Shah of Iran. The moment Shah of Iran changed his mind and signed the agreement with Sadam Hussein, the whole thing collapsed and Israel had no way to send you support. Even though Netanyahu definitely supports Kurdish independence, he cannot help you. Those who can help you are the Americans. So I don’t know if they support your independence, but things like Kirkuk, weapons and ammunition, and also oil rights should be discussed with Americans. You need to have an official agreement that allows you to sign your own contracts as it is very important for your sense of independence. Other things, I suppose, that you should always ask are having some Americans troops in Kurdistan, like Germany, there are large Americans troops now in Germany. As you know, president Obama helped you in fight against ISIS but instead of sending troops to Baghdad to help Suleimani, he should have sent troops to Kurdistan to help the Kurds because the Iraqi government in Baghdad is not a friend of America but a friend of Iran.
Gulan: how do you see the Congress’ decision to arm Peshmerga directly?
Baram: the operation that peshmerga carried out north of Mosel was not only successful but has already won recognition from the west including the US, NATO, and the Europe. I think, by now, it is obvious that the only force in Iraq that can fight Daesh are the Kurds. I am not saying that the Sunnis cannot do that because now there are some Sunni tribes who help Baghdad to fight Daesh, but most of the Sunni tribes now are sitting on the fence because they are not sure, so they are neither there or here. Yet, right now there are no other forces except for the peshmerga. What the congress devoted for the Kurds as money for arming peshmerga is not so many but it is good.
Gulan: despite the money, what is important for us is the title as the military committee of the congress support and aid peshmerga can be seen as a very official recognition of the ability of peshmerga forces to defend democracy, prosperity, and stability, which could pave the way for Kurdish independence.
Baram: it could be the case in the future.
Gulan: experts say this time the US will listen to the demands of the Kurdish people and will directly deal with the KRG without going back to Baghdad. To what extent do you think this is real?
Baram: yes, I agree, but you have to be realistic not idealist. Americans know a lot about real politics. Today in Erbil you have an American consulate which is good. You can ask to upgrade consulate to something more. As long as they don’t recognize the Kurdish independence, you cannot have an American fully-fledged ambassador; this happens when you have a state. What I mean by upgrade is, for instance, they can send a senior diplomat, an American diplomat that has a rank of ambassador, and stay in Kurdistan as a senior representative of the US in Erbil. This will be a one-step higher than you have now. This can be an indication to Baghdad that America is considering or recognizing you as an independent country. Then Baghdad will immediately understand what this means. So this means that the US is ready to apply more pressure on Baghdad to do what they want to do.
Gulan: the reality after fighting ISIS tells us that the components in Iraq need their own security and force to fight back ISIS and the US is willing to send arms and ammunition to each of them separately. Do you think that this step by the congress is going to prepare the ground for resolving the main problems of Iraq?
Baram: it is because until now Baghdad is under pressure from Tehran and also the government is under pressure from the militias. They do not agree to both Kurdish and Sunni demands. Prime Minister Abadi maybe wants to do things but since he is under pressure from these parties, he cannot do anything. So America needs a kind of leverage and needs some ways to pressure Baghdad. Now there is leverage as the US wants to give the Kurds and the Sunnis weapons without referring to Baghdad so that each feels secure in their own home. This is one of the options that the US can do in Iraq and this makes Daesh to run away into Syria. This is very serious and it means the partition of Iraq between Kurds, Shiites, and Sunnis. Hence, the US cannot do it quickly. But, right now you have to look at your relations between Erbil and Baghdad. America is now with you against Baghdad and you have to try to get as much as possible from this new situation.
Gulan: Any message at the end?
Baram: as I have said already Barzani can ask for Kurdish independence at the White House, and I can certainly say that the American will say “no yet”. What you have done against Daesh is something no one can ever do. It is a tremendous achievement and you proved to be very reliable allies. Americans do not have many reliable allies in the Middle East. They help Baghdad, but they are not allies. So Barzani can definitely ask for American help.