Dr. Rowsch Nuri Shaways is Iraq's Deputy Prime Minister and is one of the leading politicians in Kurdistan and a member of the politburo of Kurdistan Democratic Party(KDP)

Dr. Rowsch Nuri Shaways Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister to Gulan: Maliki\\\'s visit to Erbil means that the federal government has the tendency to solve the problems with Kurdistan Region

After periods of crisis and disputes with the Iraqi government, Nechirvan Barzani visited Baghdad and met with the Prime Minister. They reached an agreement to solve all the problems between the two and they made seven committees to find a suitable mechanism for solving the disputes. This paves the way for the Prime Minister Nuri Al-Maliki to visit Kurdistan and meet with the president Masoud Barzani. He also met with his cabinet ministers in Erbil with the presence of Prime Minister Barzani. Maliki\\\'s visit to Kurdistan can be seen as an important step towards solving the problems with Erbil. For this, Gulan magazine finds it necessary to interview Dr. Rowsch Nuri Shaways Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister, and asking him about the prospects of the visit.

Gulan: after some periods of struggle and dispute and Barzani\\\'s visit to Baghdad, Maliki also visited Kurdistan. In your view, how do they come to this kind of compromise?

Shaways: if you remember, after the Iraqi parliament unilaterally approved the budget, Kurdish MPs boycotted the session and returned to Kurdistan. I think the problem did not start with this but related to the issues before this. Many points of Erbil Agreement on which the government is established have not been carried out especially those related to real partnership and consensus. One of the problems of the consensus is the unilateral decision on the budget which makes Kurdish ministers and MPs return to Kurdistan and discuss with political parties and President of Kurdistan the situation. Since they remained in Kurdistan for a long period of time, the points are made about what is the best thing to do if the other party will agree on the points so the situation will be normalized. Before Mr. Nechirvan Barzani\\\'s visit to Baghdad, two more delegations had visited Baghdad and they closely considered Baghdad\\\'s views as they talked openly with Mr. Maliki and other parties about the disputes. Taking into account that there was an intention verbally to solve the crisis, we came back to Kurdistan with this view and met again with the president and Kurdish parties. It was decided officially to send a government delegation to Baghdad because the disputes were between the government of Kurdistan and those parties that had power in Baghdad. In the views of all the parties, without factional interference, freedom was given to the government to make a mechanism for solving the disputes. Thus, the delegation headed by Mr. Nechirvan Barzani went to Baghdad and reached the point that it is necessary to have a written record between the two. Although I was not a member of the delegation, I and Kirkuk governor met with the other party in the federal government and discuss those points that should be taken to solve the disputes so the Kurdish ministers and MPs would return to Baghdad. That is, we made a mechanism for solving the disputes between Federal government and Kurdistan Region based on those talks and agreements that Mr. Nechirvan Barzani did in Baghdad. All these things were signed and completed the same day and after Baezani\\\'s return to Kurdistan, the points were also made in the meeting, then the Kurdish Ministers and MPs returned to Baghdad.

Gulan: After this, Nuri Maliki visited Kurdistan, does it show Maliki\\\'s intention to solve the disputes or not?

Shaways: one of the points of Mr. Nechirvan Barzani\\\'s visit was that Mr. Maliki was asked to visit Erbil and this was seen as a positive step because it would show the intention to solve the disputes. We have not to forget that there were some parties that did not want his visit and liked the situation to remain as it was as they considered the visit compromise and made many excuses as obstacles so the visit could not be done. Yet he came. Anyhow, I think Mr. Malki\\\'s visit is an obvious indication of and shows his intention to restore the relations with the president of Kurdistan. He also showed his intention to implement the seven points. Apart from his cabinet session in Erbil, he and two of his deputies met with Kurdistan government\\\'s delegation headed by Mr. Nechirvan Barzani to appoint the committee to implement the seven points that was agreed on. He also met with the President of Kurdistan. When we returned to Baghdad, I was with Mr. Maliki. He was very pleased that he carried out these meetings in Kurdistan especially those with the president of Kurdistan. At the international level, however, those who pay attention to Iraq and democracy in Iraq considered the visit and the meetings very high--such as UN, European ambassadors, the USA, and also Iran.

Gulan: in all the meetings, it is said that the disputes should be solved based on the constitution. Both you and Baghdad are agreed on this. Then why do not the disputes solve? Does that mean there are different interpretations for the constitution?

Shaways: In Baghdad, there are different parties having different views on the constitution, but in Kurdistan all the parties have unified view on the constitution. There are some in Baghdad who are against the constitution and some others accepting half of it and there are some who are with those points that serve their interests. Kurds see the constitution as a product of their long struggle. All our parties took their role in drafting the constitution; they supported it and voted for it. And Eighty per cent of Iraqi people voted for it. This constitution protects the rights of Kurdish people in detail and it is in their advantage because firstly it acknowledges the administrations in Kurdistan. Secondly, it allows Kurdistan to run its affairs and also it allows Kurdistan Parliament to pass laws for the interest of Kurdish people and amend the laws. Moreover, it preserves a balance between different sects and groups in Iraq, Shiites and Sunnis. It is mentioned that there should be a consensus over any decrees and the principle of partnership should always be taken into account. Above all, the constitution gives the right to the Kurdish people to reject any amendments that any party wants to do in the constitution unless two third of Kurdish people in a referendum would vote for it. Hence, when the Kurds say we commit to the constitution, they are honest. Yet unfortunately the other parties are not like that. That is why we and many parties in Baghdad have two different perspectives about the constitution. So regarding the Erbil Agreement, we say commitments to the whole constitution, but others do not accept the constitution as a whole. If all parties do not commit to the constitution as one block, we will have different views on the problems. In other words, we will have an interpretation and the others will have a different one.

Gulan: after this openness for solving the disputes, some committees have been set up. Are these committees set up for solving the disputes or to find mechanisms?

Shaways: first of all, there is no agreement over the committees, but on the principles of solving the disputes such security cooperation and having a committee overseeing all of them and dealing with the implementation of article 140, solving Peshmarga issue, gas and oil law which should be implemented very soon, and the issues of consensus, partnership and balance which are important Iraqi issues. This disparages the views that this agreement is only for Kurdish interest. However, there some important points: first, revising Iraqi budget and amending its shortcomings which is the view of Kurdistan blocs that boycotted the session or a supplement will be set to solve all of these things. If the committees that are set up do their jobs soon—the jobs are clear and the Kurds know what they do want. Solving Iraq\\\'s disputes is generally obvious: first, establishing a government based on a real partnership which means a balance in authorities and decrees. A balance in all federal government institutions should be taken into consideration. The views of all main groups should be taken into account regarding any important decisions which is also one of the points in Erbil Agreement especially strategic decisions. The Kurds, the Shiites, and the Sunnis should agree on the important decisions. About Kurdish Territories outside Kurdistan region, we don’t want more than article 140. We adopted this as the laws of administrating the government and drafted and imbed in the constitution, so there should be worked on it. The obvious things that are done are: the imported went back and the Kurds returned to their positions. They were compensated and most of the land problems were solved. There are some things that are still not done: first, the borders are not returned to what they were within the Kirkuk administration. Today some acts are presented to the Parliament in order to be passed in the parliament. Secondly, how to conduct a referendum on Kirkuk and Kurdish territories outside Kurdistan Region—if a census is not carried out, a referendum will not be conducted because many are moved, imported and left. It is mentioned in the article 140 that there should be a census first then a referendum, so for implementing the article, these steps should be taken. About gas and oil law, the Kurds have to know that they have a right to supervise Kurdistan Region\\\'s oil according to the constitution and also have a right to make agreements with companies for the best production and obtain more advantages. Thus, the oil law should be consistent with the spirit of the constitution and not be central. About the distribution of incomes, Iraqi constitution asserts that the incomes should be distributed according to the size of population equally, but there is one problem on the part of the Kurds: who will distribute the income. There must be automatically according to the size, law and instructions—the money that comes to the Iraqi bank outside, is distributed there between federal government and Kurdistan Region.

Gulan: many times you have mentioned that the disputes are not personal, but are about the system of governance in the country. Do you have a hope, after this openness, that the governance system will become a real partnership one?

Shaways: the system that the Kurds want is stated in the constitution. It is a federal, democratic, and pluralist system. The power is peacefully handed over through the ballot box and based on three principles: partnership, consensus and balance. Generally this is the view of the Kurds and all the democratic parties in Iraq. Thus, solving the problems are related to this. If the constitution is implemented, all the problems will be solved. The Kurds always do this and will continue to do so even though they have problems with Baghdad or not, Iraqi officials visit Erbil or not. Yet, am I optimistic that by this visit the aims will be fulfilled? I am saying that this is not a realistic view because you have always to work hard and struggle as politics is the art of possibilities. Implementing the agreements rests on the power and ability—not physical and military—but the power of economy, politics and relations. As we are moving towards the elections, we do not have much time—many parties predict more for these elections—we should have in mind that we want democracy, federalism, pluralism, and constitution. We should not move backward and lose our interests. We shouldn’t try to make problems with Baghdad, have to implement what we have agreed on this year, and bring back the Sunnis. Another important issue is that the coming elections must be guaranteed to be clean. For this, three things are needed: first, having a better electoral law. Secondly, electoral institutions should be highly monitored. Thirdly, the electoral institutions must be neutral and unbiased.

Gulan: the current Iraqi government has been established on Erbil Agreement, and currently the efforts to ease the tensions are made in Erbil. Can we say that this openness is a return to the points of Erbil Agreement? Is it the same road map or you have set another?

Shaways: first, a government was established in Erbil and most of its works were done there. Secondly, coming back to Erbil for the second time indicates the importance and position of Erbil especially his Excellency president Barzani\\\'s role since 2003, apart from his role before this year as an opposition in all steps in Iraq. I believe his important and leading role will continue so the Region will make progress and the democratic institutions will consolidate more. Thus, mentioning any point is a return to the points stated in Erbil Agreement.
Gulan: if Erbil Agreement implements, none of Iraq sects and groups will be marginalized. Do you think this openness is only for solving the problems between Kurds and Baghdad or it is an attempt for amending governance in Iraq? In other words, is there any step towards a solution for Sunni problems in Iraq?
Shaways: Yes, there is a step and the Kurds have been always stating this openly. It is true that we make coalitions with factions and parties but not at the expense of other factions and parties. We strongly believe that Iraq cannot be ruled by one group or even two groups. The three main groups must be partnerships and work together.

Gulan: in your view, how much does toppling Assad Regime in Syria have an influence on Iraq?

Shaways: speaking as deputy Prime Minister of Iraq, I say that we are neutral, against terror and killings, supporting a solution that Syrian people will accept. Based on that principle, Iraqi Foreign minister is working both at international and regional levels. Yet, Iraqi government is a coalitional one and there are different views over the situation in Syria including the Kurds, the Shiites and the Sunnis. If I speak as a Kurd, first and foremost I have to consider the situation of Kurds in Syria in order not to become victims, and protect their interests and their peace. Secondly, they have to consider what will achieve their objectives and their national rights. I think the current regime in Syria should not remain as it is after committing many crimes and mass killings, and at the same time an extremists--Islamic or al-Qaida—should not be allowed to seize power and deteriorate the situation. Thus, we have to find a solution in which all Syrian people, the opposition—but without the current regime officials-- will participate and meet so as to find a democratic solution. This is a difficult process and international communities will work on it. The situation in Syria has not solved yet because the options are either the current regime or Al-Qaeda which are worse than each other and in this case both Syrian people and their neighbors will face difficulties. So, Syrian parties should make a democratic government which considers the rights of its people, its neighbors and international community. Iraq has to think about the possibility of not doing this. Look at the situation in Turkey. It is about to be deteriorating. Iran\\\'s situation is not clear ahead of the elections. It has disputes with the USA about nuclear program. The region as a whole is in crisis. We in Kurdistan are alright but if the situation around us worsens, it will have influences on us. So we have to be ready, organize ourselves, have a plan, and reach an agreement. Our interests lie in protecting the achievements and trying to make progress because we have to know that the situation is worsening and the Kurds have to organize themselves both inside and outside with Iraq.