David L. Phillips is currently Director of the Program on Peace-building and Rights at Columbia University’s Institute for the Study of Human Rights. Phillips has worked as a senior adviser to the United Nations Secretariat and as a foreign affairs expert and senior adviser to the U.S. Department of State. For discussing the implications of the upcoming independence referendum scheduled to be held in September 25 by Kurdistan Regional Government, we have conducted an interview with him, and he answered our questions as the following
• As the author of the Kurdish spring – a new map of the Middle East- and s staunch supporter and proponent of Kurdish State, what is your personal feeling and perspective while we are rapidly approaching the independence referendum scheduled to be held in 25 of this month?
- There was a historical injustice done to the Kurds with the Treaty of Lausanne. Now it is time to correct this injustice and for Iraqi Kurds to self-determine their political future. Do Iraqi Kurds want independence or do they want to stay as a part of Iraq, which is an Arab state and a failing state.

• So this is a crucial moment in the Kurdish history and struggle and also a significant turning point in the history of the region?
- The historical injustice was committed against all Kurds. It is a positive development that the Kurds in Syria creating an entity called Rojava and establishing local security and providing services for their community. Kurds in Iran should have greater autonomy to be able to manage their cultural and political affairs. Turkey’s path to Europe has been blocked as a result of President Erdogan’s authoritarian behavior. Kurds in Turkey must decide: do they want to stay as part of Turkey, a centralized state that anti-American and anti-Western, or do they want to seek an alternative arrangement such as federalism or “democratic autonomy” in order to realize their political and cultural rights.

• With regard to the independence issue, the Kurds are feeling that they have no other option except pursuing or pushing for independence, what is your opinion in this regard?
- Iraqi Kurds feel compelled to pursue independence because Iraq is an obstacle to the realization of Kurdish aspirations. If Iraq had implemented the 2005 constitution and showed a good faith toward the Kurds, then the situation might be different. But Iraq never implemented the constitution. So it is time for the Kurds to assess their future as part of Iraq and decide whether they want independence or they want to be part of a failing Arab state.

• So the Iraqi government has blocked the Kurdish internal self-determination and the Kurds are entitled and are on a solid ground to exercise what is called the external self-determination, including secession, separation and independence?
- That is right. If Iraq had treated the Kurds as equal partner and made federalism a reality, then the situation would be different. Because Arabs in Iraq has always treated the Kurds as second-class citizens, the Kurds are pushed to assert their independence.

• As you know Kurdistan region dispatched a delegation to Baghdad that conducted some negotiation with Iraqi authorities, is this a well thought out move, do you encourage conducting more negotiation with Baghdad?
- Ultimately Baghdad and Kurdistan regional government must negotiate the terms of an amicable divorce. They need to discuss the terms of the separation. There is no military solution to the problem. So talking to Baghdad and working cooperatively towards the realization of an independent state called Iraqi Kurdistan is a responsible thing to do.

• You know there is deeply mutual distrust between KRG and Iraqi central government, to the extent we can say safely that the Kurds cannot get Baghdad’s consent to declare independence, so this separation cannot be the result of peaceful and negotiated settlement, what do you recommend instead, and what should the Kurds do?
- I disagree; I believe that Kurdistan regional government and Baghdad have a shared self-interest in separation. Through political negotiations, the government of Iraq will accept the Iraqi Kurdistan as a new independent and sovereign state. It is ultimately in the interest of both countries to disassociate and change the structure of government in Iraq by allowing Iraqi Kurdistan to go on it is own.

• But The Iraqi government has repeatedly stated that this referendum lacks any constitutional grounds, and the Iraqi parliament also rejects the referendum, dismissing it as unconstitutional and has authorized the prime minister as commander-in-chief of the armed forces to take all necessary measures to preserve the territorial integrity of Iraq?
- If Iraq was sincere about the constitutional order it would have implemented its commitments under the 2005 constitution. Its failure to implement the constitution brought Iraqi Kurdistan to this point. There is no longer a trusting relationship. The Kurds will continue their struggle for impendence, and ultimately the Iraqi government will accept the Iraqi Kurdistan’s independence. It is in Iraq’s interest to have good neighborly relations.

• The Kurds have announced that declaring independence would not be the immediate outcome of the referendum; they say they will declare it in the appropriate time and circumstance, what is your opinion in this regard?
- The referendum is part of the process. I have recommended to allow one year form the date of the referendum to negotiate the terms of the divorce with Baghdad. This cannot be an open -ended negotiation. It must culminate in a decision. If Baghdad agrees to terms, then the divorce can be done through mutual agreement. If Baghdad refuses the independence, then Kurdistan needs to move forward with its declaration of independence one year after the referendum.
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• How do you envision the US role in this regard?
- At the moment the US opposes Kurdistan’s path to independence, but this will change, the United States enjoy partnership with Kurdistan regional government, that stretches beyond security cooperation, that includes shared values and a commitment to democracy, human rights and good governance, hopefully those will be the building blocks for future cooperation between the united states and the independent state of Iraqi Kurdistan.

• So you expect that US administration is going to abandon the one Iraq policy, as a Feckless, and shortsighted policy?
- The one Iraq policy is no longer valid, particularly given the peshmerga sacrifices fighting ISIS. The United Sates needs a reality-based approach. It must see thing as they are, not as Washington wishes them to be. Iraqi Kurdistan is already a de facto independent state and a bilateral partner of the United States.

• In one of your seminars you mentioned that you called for establishing US consulate during a KDP conference, would you repeat that call but this time for establishing US embassy in the capital of Kurdistan state?
- I attended the KDP conference, I think it was in 1992, and I called for an American flag fly in Erbil. At that time people thought that I was crazy, but now there is an American flag flying. Today I call the US government to recognize Kurdistan as an independent state. Bureaucrats in Washington may disagree for the moment, but they will come to realize that the U.S. national interests are served through the independence of Iraqi Kurdistan.

• How consequential the emergence of independent Kurdistan would be in terms of its impact on the regional stability?
- The independence of Iraqi Kurdistan will be a positive force for democratic change in the region. Not only it would influence Kurds in other countries, but it would put pressure on the neighboring states to democratize. This will have an overall positive effect on peace, progress, and stability.

• So you don’t agree with those have say that the Kurdish push for independence will lead to more conflicts and instability in an already volatile region?
- Kurdistan’s independence will be a factor for peace in the region, advancing U.S. national and security interests. It is vital for U.S. to clearly assess the situation and to support the right of Kurds in Iraq for self-determination, so that the largest stateless people can realize their democratic and national aspirations.

• But some voice their concern about the viability or the sustainability of the Kurdish state, what is your opinion in this regard?
- There will surely be pressure on Iraqi Kurdistan from its neighbours. Independence is not gifted. Independence must be earned. For that to occur, the Iraqi Kurds must show their resolve and their commitment to overcoming obstacles. Every Iraqi Kurd dreams of independence.

• In previous answers you touched upon the violation of the 2005 constitution by the Iraqi government, this especially true with regard to the implementation of article 140 of the constitution, and recently the provincial council of Kirkuk decided about conducting independence referendum in that city, how do you analyze this decision?
- Kirkuk is the “Jerusalem” for the Iraqi Kurds. It not only has symbolic significance but it is critical for Iraqi Kurdistan. I am confident that Kirkuk will be a capital for commerce in Iraqi Kurdistan. Its mineral resources will supply the means for the Iraqi Kurds to enjoy independence. It is important for the Iraqi Kurds, who were a minority in Iraq and have suffered historically at the hands of Baghdad, to implement special measures to protect and promote the rights of minorities in Iraqi Kurdistan. The honorable Kirkuk Governor NajmaddinKarim has committed himself to the protection and promotion of minority rights. All the residents of Iraqi Kurdistan should enjoy the fruits of independence.

• The Kurds have faced increasing pressure to postpone the referendum, what are the potential pitfalls of any rescheduling of referendum?
- The referendum should not be postponed. The credibility of Kurdistan regional government would be compromised. Independence is not a slogan; independence is both a state of mind and a state of being. The Kurds have stated their commitment to becoming independent. Now it is the time to act.

• What should be the basic trappings of the Kurdish state’s governance structure? Or what should be the fundamental features of the Kurdish state constitution?
- Bzhi, Azadi, u Demokrasi – freedom, rights, and democracy. These are the same words that I uttered at the KDP conference in 1992. These principles must be the foundation of a new independent state.