Barbara Carroll Forrest is a professor of philosophy in the Department of History and Political Science at the University of Louisiana. Forrest serves on the board of directors of the National Center for Science Education (NCSE), the Board of Trustees of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, and the New Orleans Secular Humanist Association (NOSHA). We contacted the Professor Forrest to discuss the importance of revolutions and roles of the founding fathers in a nation’s life, and she replied to our questions in an exclusive interview to Gulan Magazine as the following:

* History of a nation is composed of revolutions for freedom which means that the final goal is freedom, so how is it possible for a nation to learn from it is past for building present and future?
- That is a very general question, I'm not sure I have an answer for this because the question is too general, but I think it depends of the country. In the case of the United States; we Americans constantly look at what our founding fathers did. In other words; the issues they addressed the way they wrote the constitution, we always use that as a reference point for how to make decisions in the present, what did Tomas Jefferson and George Washington and James Madison say for example about the separation of church and the state, what did they say about cooperation. I can only tell you what the United States does; we look at our history for guidance, we try to remember what the founders had in mind when they wrote the constitution.

* Any revolution which has taken place for freedom has carried wishes of a nation on itself, so how is it possible to change this wish into nation rebuilding power after the revolution is over?
- That is very difficult, and there is no guarantee that it will succeed. After the United States declared independence from England and became an independent country; it was very difficult to build a new country, it almost did not succeed, and that’s because there was different factions who were competing for their own interests. So; it just took a long time, sometimes you have to make mistakes first and learn from your mistakes and start over again and that’s what United States did. For example; there was a problem in our colonial history when the country was very young that the federal government did not have enough power to control what the individual states were doing, each state was making its own decision for example about minting money, currency. So; we were governed for a few years by a document called the “Articles of Confederation”, which meant that we are not a closely united country; each of the thirteen independent states could make decisions independently of each other. So; there was no common monetary system, there was no common currency for example, and so we had to abandoned that document and abandoned that system and that how we got our current constitution, we abandoned the article of confederation for the constitution of the United States which provides for a strong central government which gives the states certain freedoms but not the freedom for example to mint its own money. So; we made some mistakes and we learned from the mistakes and we created a better system which is not perfect but it is better, because it specifies certain freedoms for each individual states but it also tells were the central government has control over the states. We had to make mistakes and to learn from those mistakes and try again, and that’s very difficult and it doesn’t always work, and the united states still a very young country, we are only a little over 230 years old. But sometimes countries do make mistakes and they have to start over, and that’s what happened in the United States.

* Any nation has a character which resembles that nation, how history creates a symbol to a nation? How a leader creates a history or how history is created?
- That’s an interesting question, because in the United States Americans tend to turn their historical characters into mythological figures, for example young people growing up learning things about George Washington that are not true, Americans idealize their historical figures, in other words they make them better than they really are. I don’t know if every nation does this, but the United States does this. The United States is based on a history which is not entirely accurate. Some of it accurate some of it is myth. So; the young children are taught an idealized version of American history in order to make them patriotic, but then when children get older they find out that much of what they taught in their history classes is not true, they learn the ugly side of history. The American history has a good side and a bad side, our national figures like George Washington and Tomas Jefferson and James Madison, they were great men but they were flaws, and typically the Americans don’t like to hear the flaws about their national characters, for example Tomas Jefferson and James Madison both own slaves, they were slave owners. But typically; the history of a nation that is used to promote patriotism doesn’t focus on that. So; the history of a nation is very important but it is important to be true, it is important for the people in a nation to learn the ugly side of their history as well as the good side.

* Referring of a national symbol is a norm within nations so to what extend reading the history of the national leaders can become a source of invention for the nation in the present time or become an ethical basis for organizing the society?
- Building a society on the history of your national figures like Tomas Jefferson and George Washington, I think you have to look at what historical and national figures actually did what they said and the principles they promoted. Fortunately; in the United States our founders people like Washington and Jefferson and Madison stayed even though when they were flaw individuals who own slaves, they did write a constitution that gave us the foundation and bases for ending the basis of slavery, they gave us the way to correct the problems. Shall we say; they were not perfect men but their ideals were based on the ideals of European enlightenment, and the European enlightenment is about individual freedom, it’s about intellectual freedom; the freedom of thought, the freedom of expression, and the freedom for citizens to criticize their government. So; even though we have not always perfectly implemented those ideals they are good ideals and they have served as a good foundation for the country. Now; if the country has been different, if our founding fathers have been different, for example if they have written a different constitution; it does not promote freedom and does not give the individual citizens a way to have their grievances addressed, we might be a very different country. So; I think you have to look at the context of what the historical figures promoted. Certainly; slavery is one of the last things stain on the American character, we have never perfectly overcome the injustice of the slavery, but we keep trying. So; if your founders give you good ideals you have something to build on, if your founders give you ideals which are unjust then you cannot build the country on that.

* Last Question: All the leaders whom have emerged across the history they have saved a nation this saving becomes a history for the nation so to what extend history of independency becomes a living history to that nation?
- In the United States, July the 4th is an extremely important holiday, it became more important later in our history, I forget which president was that declared the July the 4th to be the day of celebration, I think it might have been John Adams but I'm not completely sure. July the 4th was just simply the day that was chosen to celebrate American independency form England, and it has become an important holiday because it is a time for Americans to appreciate our freedom, and it is a symbol of the freedom that we want when we declared our independency from the Great Britain and we have to fight a war to break free of the influence of England. So; it is an important holiday it is a time when the county can become more united. I can always think from experience of the United States. Well; in France, they have that feeling and it is an important holyday too. I think the reason so important like that feel day and July 4th it is because symbolize freedom for ordinary people, it was when the United States broke away from the monarchy and became a nation in which people governed itself. I think that’s why it is very important. We don’t have a king, the worst president we ever had in the history of our country was Gorge W. Bush, and the reason he was so terrible because he behave like a king, he considered himself above the law, and because Americans have a constitution; we were able to get rid of him through the vote, we got rid of him through the peaceful mean. I think that’s one of the things that Americans think about and July the 4th that, we governed ourselves; not perfectly but we governed ourselves we don’t have a kind, and if we have a person who behave like a king we get rid of him and we do it through voting.

Transcription: Mahmud Samih